Okay, well, I put “The Story” at the end of yesterday’s thread. I suspect everyone would probably not check back after that, as it was getting kind of late. So, if you’re curious, it’s at the end of yesterday.
Just read your story; kudos for trying to be a “good citizen” re the lady you saw on Teh Big Route. (Hope it doesn’t turn into an issue for you the way interactions with LEOs sometimes do.)
Paddy --
I know a bit about metal roofing (Jim knows moar, plus we know folks) and would be happy to assist you in any way I can. Feel free to shoot me an email or, if you think a phone call would be more productive, we can swap numbers and sort out a mutually convenient time to speak.
==============================
Last edited 2 years ago by Fatwa Arbuckle: Misanthropologist
Happy Monday, Gerbil Nation!
Good morning, dv8, Fatwa, and Harper!
dv8 -- glad you were able to avoid the woman in the road and good on ya for notifying the authorities.
Harper -- I’m awake, I’m awake!
Fatwa -- one of the partners wants to replace the existing shingle roofs on the apartments with metal roofing. These are single-story buildings with a pitch of slightly over 2:12. The maintenance crew usually replaces the roofs, rather than hiring a roofing company, so there is some labor savings. I don’t know if they would be able to install a standing seam roof without special training. We’ve got about 110,000 square feet of roofing covering a number of buildings. Does it make sense to make this change?
1) Installing a standing seam roof without training is, IMHO, not a good idea. There are a lot of little tricks to installing them properly and that’s a (relatively) lot of roofing area. If the maintenance guys are not experienced working with sheet metal, the job is unlikely to go well. Particularly given the relatively low slope.
Additionally, I don’t know if you can rent an extruder for the panels, top closures, ridges, end trim, etc. Not to mention running / maintaining the extruder. (The few standing seam jobs we’ve bid, we factored-in a sheet metal sub Jim’s known since high school to actually form the components onsite).
2) Without installing rigid insulation (or some other noise reduction material) beneath the roof, metal roofing’s significantly noisier than shingles, especially during heavy rains. Decent rigid insulation’s not cheap and requires plate and screw fasteners, so it’s also pretty labor intensive. (Don’t know how CA Title 24 affects new metal roofing as it’s been a while since we’ve bid such a job; ditto local code for wherever the apartment’s located.)
Without knowing a lot more, I strongly suspect the partnership would be better off going with a decent name-brand (GAF, Owens Corning, etc.) dimensional / “architectural” shingle which meets state and local solar reflectivity requirements. Those typically come with a 40–year limited warranty on the materials (for “commercial” projects); labor warranty -- if any -- varies, depending on certification / skill level of installers, substrate, etc.
Lastly, flat or 3-tab shingles are not a good overall value (as you’re probably well-aware.)
Please let me know if you need more detailed info.
Thanks, Fatwa! I did a little research on the topic yesterday and didn’t think it made sense, even without the issue with the extruder and rigid insulation. We’ve been using 3-tab shingles and we get maybe 20 years, with some patching in-between. The apartments are located in El Centro, so they get a lot of heat. The guy who wants to go metal is a CPA, so I’ve tasked him with doing a cost analysis. There’s no way his numbers are going to work out, unless his assumptions are bad. I think upgrading the shingles is the best way forward -- we’re trying to move away from a “do it as cheaply as possible” mindset. I’ll probably reach out to you for more help when he gets his analysis put together, which he probably won’t be able to get around to for a few months.
I think upgrading the shingles is the best way forward — we’re trying to move away from a “do it as cheaply as possible” mindset.
Heartily concur; good call. I’d also go with a decent “synthetic basesheet” (like Owens Corning Titanium UDL30) as opposed to 30# paper.
===================
One HOA we knew years ago installed standing seam roofs without anything to diffuse sound (as it “wasn’t in the budget”, despite having been told of the noise issue) and were they not pleased with the result.
Hello, Sven. It has been sad. It’s heartbreaking that we’re becoming used to farces like this, isn’t it? I remember how livid I was over Benghazi. Now, watching Pres. Snoozy McSnoozeFace check his watch while waiting for the soldier’s caskets to arrive at the airport, as though they were holding him up -- keeping him from snack time -- reminded me so much of Clinton in the same position after the Benghazi raid and I just felt like, “Yeah, I get it, just leave those men and their families in peace. You don’t belong there. Go eat your pudding, Joe”. I’m no longer outraged, I’m just sick at heart.
Good Morning, GN!
Okay, well, I put “The Story” at the end of yesterday’s thread. I suspect everyone would probably not check back after that, as it was getting kind of late. So, if you’re curious, it’s at the end of yesterday.
That’s a sad story, Dv8 -- I wonder who she was and what she was doing.
And, I’m still awake.
Another delightful Monday; yay!
Hey, dv8 (and Harper!!1!)!
dv8 --
Just read your story; kudos for trying to be a “good citizen” re the lady you saw on Teh Big Route. (Hope it doesn’t turn into an issue for you the way interactions with LEOs sometimes do.)
Paddy --
I know a bit about metal roofing (Jim knows moar, plus we know folks) and would be happy to assist you in any way I can. Feel free to shoot me an email or, if you think a phone call would be more productive, we can swap numbers and sort out a mutually convenient time to speak.
==============================
WAKE UP!!!
That is all.
Zzzzz…….(((poof)))
Happy Monday, Gerbil Nation!
Good morning, dv8, Fatwa, and Harper!
dv8 -- glad you were able to avoid the woman in the road and good on ya for notifying the authorities.
Harper -- I’m awake, I’m awake!
Fatwa -- one of the partners wants to replace the existing shingle roofs on the apartments with metal roofing. These are single-story buildings with a pitch of slightly over 2:12. The maintenance crew usually replaces the roofs, rather than hiring a roofing company, so there is some labor savings. I don’t know if they would be able to install a standing seam roof without special training. We’ve got about 110,000 square feet of roofing covering a number of buildings. Does it make sense to make this change?
Hey, Paddy --
Brief response:
1) Installing a standing seam roof without training is, IMHO, not a good idea. There are a lot of little tricks to installing them properly and that’s a (relatively) lot of roofing area. If the maintenance guys are not experienced working with sheet metal, the job is unlikely to go well. Particularly given the relatively low slope.
Additionally, I don’t know if you can rent an extruder for the panels, top closures, ridges, end trim, etc. Not to mention running / maintaining the extruder. (The few standing seam jobs we’ve bid, we factored-in a sheet metal sub Jim’s known since high school to actually form the components onsite).
2) Without installing rigid insulation (or some other noise reduction material) beneath the roof, metal roofing’s significantly noisier than shingles, especially during heavy rains. Decent rigid insulation’s not cheap and requires plate and screw fasteners, so it’s also pretty labor intensive. (Don’t know how CA Title 24 affects new metal roofing as it’s been a while since we’ve bid such a job; ditto local code for wherever the apartment’s located.)
Without knowing a lot more, I strongly suspect the partnership would be better off going with a decent name-brand (GAF, Owens Corning, etc.) dimensional / “architectural” shingle which meets state and local solar reflectivity requirements. Those typically come with a 40–year limited warranty on the materials (for “commercial” projects); labor warranty -- if any -- varies, depending on certification / skill level of installers, substrate, etc.
Lastly, flat or 3-tab shingles are not a good overall value (as you’re probably well-aware.)
Please let me know if you need more detailed info.
Thanks, Fatwa! I did a little research on the topic yesterday and didn’t think it made sense, even without the issue with the extruder and rigid insulation. We’ve been using 3-tab shingles and we get maybe 20 years, with some patching in-between. The apartments are located in El Centro, so they get a lot of heat. The guy who wants to go metal is a CPA, so I’ve tasked him with doing a cost analysis. There’s no way his numbers are going to work out, unless his assumptions are bad. I think upgrading the shingles is the best way forward -- we’re trying to move away from a “do it as cheaply as possible” mindset. I’ll probably reach out to you for more help when he gets his analysis put together, which he probably won’t be able to get around to for a few months.
Thanks again!
Careful.
Heh.
LINE 57: If the skies are raining blood, deduct the amount on Line 43 from the amount on line 37b; otherwise enter 0.00
Drive-by:
De nada, Paddy.
Heartily concur; good call. I’d also go with a decent “synthetic basesheet” (like Owens Corning Titanium UDL30) as opposed to 30# paper.
===================
One HOA we knew years ago installed standing seam roofs without anything to diffuse sound (as it “wasn’t in the budget”, despite having been told of the noise issue) and were they not pleased with the result.
Good to know!
Ah, Sheetmetal. She’s like the sea…
… and the sea… She’s like a woman….
…and the woman…she’s like a -- wait, I’m about to get myself in trouble. Better stop.
The White House: “Afghanistan? Never heard of it.”
turns around and walks away…
Hi Miss Harper -- a sad day, but then it’s been a sad year -- why should today be any different?
Because today has a Harper in it!
You are too generous, Paddy’O.
Hello, Sven. It has been sad. It’s heartbreaking that we’re becoming used to farces like this, isn’t it? I remember how livid I was over Benghazi. Now, watching Pres. Snoozy McSnoozeFace check his watch while waiting for the soldier’s caskets to arrive at the airport, as though they were holding him up -- keeping him from snack time -- reminded me so much of Clinton in the same position after the Benghazi raid and I just felt like, “Yeah, I get it, just leave those men and their families in peace. You don’t belong there. Go eat your pudding, Joe”. I’m no longer outraged, I’m just sick at heart.
I wonder if those California high school students were left behind?
Well, according to the administration, they weren’t stranded. Left behind, maybe, but not stranded.
Night everyone.