It does seem ironic that we seem to condemn waterboarding of terrorists or even making them uncomfortable but we increasingly allow using Tasers on people to force compliance and submission, even on the elderly or on children, or strip searches, body cavity violations, and forced X-rays and enemas. Added to asset seizures and given no arrest need even be made and it is certainly a different Country than what I grew up in.
Dogs are a good way to furnish all sorts of phony-baloney probable cause. Especially as there are no meaningful standards for training / certifying them.
Further, “field tests” yield far too many false positives. And the growing number of scandals involving forensic science and police labs -- including the FBI’s -- are a very serious problem
Mac --
Until decent people revolt against such unconstitutional abuses by government in an absolutely unequivocal manner, things will only get worse.
This is complicated by the fact that cops, DAs and the courts are all part of the same diseased system which tends to protect itself to the exclusion of anything reasonably resembling justice.
I believe there’s abundant evidence the system is so corrupt that it cannot be fixed peaceably, and that scares the hell out of me.
I have relatives and friends in law enforcement that epitomize everything good I hope to see in officers of the law or people with authority, but I also know a couple I don’t think should have badges and I expect if I had an official encounter with them without knowing them it would go badly for both of us.
Have you ever asked any of the good ones why the system has become so feculent and/or what -- if anything -- they think can be done to address it?
As I’ve previously stated, eliminating public employee unions as well as sovereign / limited immunity and forcing cops, DAs, judges, etc. to purchase professional liability insurance (like lawyers, docs, etc.) would be a big help.
Fatwa, much of the blame must fall on citizens and voters who don’t want to be bothered taking any responsibility for their own safety or self sufficiency. Such sheep always support any strongman that promises to protect and provide for them and the price is always liberty and freedom.
When sheep are afraid they will condone and call for any measures the masters wish to take to keep them feeling safe.
A few years ago Patterico posted a video of a criminal evading police. He jumped out of his car and ran into a back yard. When he found no exit and saw police following him in he went submissive and lay down on the ground spread eagled. He obviously knew the drill. In spite of this the first officer reaching him kicked him hard in the face. The next few officers did the now familiar knee drop on his back and neck while a dog was allowed to bite at his legs. I was rather shocked at the support the police got from the commenters there. It seemed that criticizing the abusive behavior of the police meant that I was in favor of complete anarchy and the death of civilization itself. Police could not defend society from the wolves if they could not “tune up” the bad guys. Sipowicz on NYPD Blue seemed to be the new role model. I guess the fact I remember when beating confessions out of suspects was the actions of the bad cops marks me as old and out of date.
I have only talked with a few and their views seem to be similar to mine that we need less powerful and smaller government with law enforcement officers getting back to the business of law enforcement as public safety officers and not public control. The ones I have talked to the most are old farts like me on the gun forums so they lean conservative. One of Elena’s cousins that I watched grow from a shy withdrawn child to a fine young man through his army service became a police officer and has SWAT experience and has worked with Federal agencies. It is knowing him that keeps me from giving up all hope. He is a fine officer and so much that seems pervasive would be unthinkable to him.
Fatwa, we obviously need unions. Look at the poor policeman who was fired by his department just because he was busted and imprisoned by the Feds for growing and distributing drugs while he was on duty and in uniform. They did not give him the proper hearing so the union got him almost 200K in back pay. I guess they could not get him back on the force because he is serving time but that will be a nice bonus for him.
Thanks, Mac. (Also, “heh” to your 12:31 and 12:33 comments.)
Perhaps it’s years of residing in places (especially Chicago and Los Angeles) where institutional corruption is rampant in LE, but I can no longer abide cops pretending to be brave, heroic sheepdogs when they adamantly refuse to cull the rabid curs from their ranks.
I also have a problem with cops who are all too willing to violate the Constitution they pretend to take an oath to uphold. “I was only following orders” didn’t fly at Nuremburg; many bad cops ought to get precisely the same treatment as hydrophobic canines or Nazi war criminals.
I agree that a lot of the problem is not just bad cops which are always a factor but good cops allowing and covering their bad actions. That more than anything else causes loss of respect. Corrupt politicians misusing police is also a big part of the problem. Never having lived in one of the big city pest holes and being brought up to respect and support police I was slow to see the problems but it has become all to clear. We forbid the military from doing law enforcement but then militarize our police. Bad trade off.
That more than anything else causes loss of respect.
Along with fear and loathing.
I suspect the problem is not going to get appropriate attention in this country until some community (and I think it’s likely to be a small-ish, rural-ish one) decides to literally go to war against their thuggish local cops / sheriff’s department.
(And if I were a betting man, my money would be on the citizens. At least until the county and/or state government overreacts.)
I’ve often been accused of painting LEOs with a broad brush…but when they hunker down and present a monolithic face to the community to maintain the “thin blue line”, I don’t see any reasonable alternative.
Way back in early March, I contacted my Congresscritter’s local office to express my disgust that she had voted to fully fund DHS, thus allowing Pres. Obama to continue his illegal amnesty and lack of enforcement of our nation’s immigration laws. This morning I received an email reply. Let me share with you the first sentence:
Thank you for sharing your support for fully funding the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
BK and I had a number of vigorous conversations re cops over the years. While she was certainly aware of some bad stuff, it was the combination of
1) undeclared martial law in Boston after the bombing,
2) the shooting-up of innocents while LAPD was looking for Christopher Dorner and
3) another incident in L.A. when cops arbitrarily shut down an entire neighborhood after someone shot at a couple of detectives
that pushed her over the edge.
Paddy --
I’m impressed that after only two months you got such a responsive letter from your scumsucking Rep’s staff.
My de facto motto re government has pretty much become, “Think Globally, Burn Locally”. 😉
Been trying to put together some roof repairs and get our fence replaced. We were hoping to wait another year or so on the fence but the last storm took it’s toll and two sections are down so it is time. They put in really nasty cheap fences and we have been repairing broken posts and rotted lumber since the first year. The new one is expensive, especially with our large lot, but it is much better quality and has a ten year warranty. Because of the storm damage, both my neighbors are willing to split the cost of the shared sections of fence. It still leaves me with the biggest bill but it helps and makes it worth getting done now. It will be nice not having to fix the fence every few months.
Mac -- you can treat the raw wood with a borate solution to drastically reduce the incidence of insect and mold attack. Insects that eat the wood, die. The solution can be applied by brush, roller, or with a garden-style pump sprayer. Once dried, you just need to seal the wood so the borates don’t leach out. You can buy commercial preparations, such as Tim-bor, or make your own (much cheaper).
Monday again? Gaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Good on teh TX House of Representatives for unanimously approving a bill requiring a warrant for cavity searches.
OTOH, it’s utterly outrageous such a bill should even be necessary. Sometime drugs do make people crazy…but that’s often not the actual users.
Good morning, Gerbil Nation!
Good morning, Fatwa!
Boy, those cops sure are good at sniffing out marijuana -- makes you wonder why we spend all that money on dogs.
It does seem ironic that we seem to condemn waterboarding of terrorists or even making them uncomfortable but we increasingly allow using Tasers on people to force compliance and submission, even on the elderly or on children, or strip searches, body cavity violations, and forced X-rays and enemas. Added to asset seizures and given no arrest need even be made and it is certainly a different Country than what I grew up in.
Remember when this was an image from a third world dictatorship or an authoritarian regime and not local law enforcement?
Hai, Paddy and Mac!
Paddy --
Dogs are a good way to furnish all sorts of phony-baloney probable cause. Especially as there are no meaningful standards for training / certifying them.
Further, “field tests” yield far too many false positives. And the growing number of scandals involving forensic science and police labs -- including the FBI’s -- are a very serious problem
Mac --
Until decent people revolt against such unconstitutional abuses by government in an absolutely unequivocal manner, things will only get worse.
This is complicated by the fact that cops, DAs and the courts are all part of the same diseased system which tends to protect itself to the exclusion of anything reasonably resembling justice.
I believe there’s abundant evidence the system is so corrupt that it cannot be fixed peaceably, and that scares the hell out of me.
I have relatives and friends in law enforcement that epitomize everything good I hope to see in officers of the law or people with authority, but I also know a couple I don’t think should have badges and I expect if I had an official encounter with them without knowing them it would go badly for both of us.
Have you ever asked any of the good ones why the system has become so feculent and/or what -- if anything -- they think can be done to address it?
As I’ve previously stated, eliminating public employee unions as well as sovereign / limited immunity and forcing cops, DAs, judges, etc. to purchase professional liability insurance (like lawyers, docs, etc.) would be a big help.
But that seems quite unrealistic.
Fatwa, much of the blame must fall on citizens and voters who don’t want to be bothered taking any responsibility for their own safety or self sufficiency. Such sheep always support any strongman that promises to protect and provide for them and the price is always liberty and freedom.
When sheep are afraid they will condone and call for any measures the masters wish to take to keep them feeling safe.
A few years ago Patterico posted a video of a criminal evading police. He jumped out of his car and ran into a back yard. When he found no exit and saw police following him in he went submissive and lay down on the ground spread eagled. He obviously knew the drill. In spite of this the first officer reaching him kicked him hard in the face. The next few officers did the now familiar knee drop on his back and neck while a dog was allowed to bite at his legs. I was rather shocked at the support the police got from the commenters there. It seemed that criticizing the abusive behavior of the police meant that I was in favor of complete anarchy and the death of civilization itself. Police could not defend society from the wolves if they could not “tune up” the bad guys. Sipowicz on NYPD Blue seemed to be the new role model. I guess the fact I remember when beating confessions out of suspects was the actions of the bad cops marks me as old and out of date.
I have only talked with a few and their views seem to be similar to mine that we need less powerful and smaller government with law enforcement officers getting back to the business of law enforcement as public safety officers and not public control. The ones I have talked to the most are old farts like me on the gun forums so they lean conservative. One of Elena’s cousins that I watched grow from a shy withdrawn child to a fine young man through his army service became a police officer and has SWAT experience and has worked with Federal agencies. It is knowing him that keeps me from giving up all hope. He is a fine officer and so much that seems pervasive would be unthinkable to him.
Fatwa, we obviously need unions. Look at the poor policeman who was fired by his department just because he was busted and imprisoned by the Feds for growing and distributing drugs while he was on duty and in uniform. They did not give him the proper hearing so the union got him almost 200K in back pay. I guess they could not get him back on the force because he is serving time but that will be a nice bonus for him.
To serve and protect?
Thanks, Mac. (Also, “heh” to your 12:31 and 12:33 comments.)
Perhaps it’s years of residing in places (especially Chicago and Los Angeles) where institutional corruption is rampant in LE, but I can no longer abide cops pretending to be brave, heroic sheepdogs when they adamantly refuse to cull the rabid curs from their ranks.
I also have a problem with cops who are all too willing to violate the Constitution they pretend to take an oath to uphold. “I was only following orders” didn’t fly at Nuremburg; many bad cops ought to get precisely the same treatment as hydrophobic canines or Nazi war criminals.
If that makes me some sort of radical, so be it.
I agree that a lot of the problem is not just bad cops which are always a factor but good cops allowing and covering their bad actions. That more than anything else causes loss of respect. Corrupt politicians misusing police is also a big part of the problem. Never having lived in one of the big city pest holes and being brought up to respect and support police I was slow to see the problems but it has become all to clear. We forbid the military from doing law enforcement but then militarize our police. Bad trade off.
Along with fear and loathing.
I suspect the problem is not going to get appropriate attention in this country until some community (and I think it’s likely to be a small-ish, rural-ish one) decides to literally go to war against their thuggish local cops / sheriff’s department.
(And if I were a betting man, my money would be on the citizens. At least until the county and/or state government overreacts.)
I’ve often been accused of painting LEOs with a broad brush…but when they hunker down and present a monolithic face to the community to maintain the “thin blue line”, I don’t see any reasonable alternative.
Way back in early March, I contacted my Congresscritter’s local office to express my disgust that she had voted to fully fund DHS, thus allowing Pres. Obama to continue his illegal amnesty and lack of enforcement of our nation’s immigration laws. This morning I received an email reply. Let me share with you the first sentence:
Thank you for sharing your support for fully funding the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
Boy, do I sure feel ‘represented’!
Mac --
BK and I had a number of vigorous conversations re cops over the years. While she was certainly aware of some bad stuff, it was the combination of
1) undeclared martial law in Boston after the bombing,
2) the shooting-up of innocents while LAPD was looking for Christopher Dorner and
3) another incident in L.A. when cops arbitrarily shut down an entire neighborhood after someone shot at a couple of detectives
that pushed her over the edge.
Paddy --
I’m impressed that after only two months you got such a responsive letter from your scumsucking Rep’s staff.
My de facto motto re government has pretty much become, “Think Globally, Burn Locally”. 😉
Boy, you guys were chatty today.
As much as I tend not to take the cat’s side, that yippy little pest dog got what deserved.
I’m ready for bed. It’s what, 8:00? Sheesh.
We were rather chatty, weren’t we?
Sleep well, gentle Sven.
Been trying to put together some roof repairs and get our fence replaced. We were hoping to wait another year or so on the fence but the last storm took it’s toll and two sections are down so it is time. They put in really nasty cheap fences and we have been repairing broken posts and rotted lumber since the first year. The new one is expensive, especially with our large lot, but it is much better quality and has a ten year warranty. Because of the storm damage, both my neighbors are willing to split the cost of the shared sections of fence. It still leaves me with the biggest bill but it helps and makes it worth getting done now. It will be nice not having to fix the fence every few months.
But I do hate this crap.
Mac -- you can treat the raw wood with a borate solution to drastically reduce the incidence of insect and mold attack. Insects that eat the wood, die. The solution can be applied by brush, roller, or with a garden-style pump sprayer. Once dried, you just need to seal the wood so the borates don’t leach out. You can buy commercial preparations, such as Tim-bor, or make your own (much cheaper).