Being the mean-spirited old bastid I am, I was glad to see that Issa is going to make Lois Lerner show-up today despite her declaration to invoke the Fifth. (And hope that the questions will be such as to maximize the embarrassment to both Ms. Lerner and the IRS. Because that’s just how I roll.)
Also pleased to see protesters across the country. (Despite my inability to find info about the ATL protest, I was going to go to the local IRS building at noon. Good thing I didn’t, as the protest here was in front of the State House.)
This was my fave sign from all the online coverage I saw:
Rather surprisingly and stupidly, Issa let her walk. I would have left her sitting up there, let questions be lobbed at her, and force her to invoke the Fifth each and every time. Why treat her with any courtesy, especially after she made an opening statement asserting her innocence-which Trey Gowdy at least noted.
Sven -- Yes, I wondered about that. How can she first assert her utter innocence of wrong doing, then proceed to invoke the 5th? Those things would seem to be incompatible. Even if she wanted to avoid tarring others with knowledge that she had, the 5th does not cover that.
I wish that Issa’d made her respond to questions, too. I don’t really get why the Congress is afraid to look tough or even partisan. They’re there to do the nation’s business and they’re supposed to be both tough and partisan.
Once the DOJ announced that they were launching a criminal investigation, any lawyer worth the money would advise their client to invoke the 5th when testifying to Congress (unless granted immunity). I think Holder was quick on the announcement of an investigation to forestall any further useful testimony.
1. Ms. Lerner -- is it true that you were aware of the targeting of conservative groups but lied to Congress to hide those activities?
2. Is it true that you directed the targeting of conservative groups?
3. Is it true that you issued that directive under direction from the White House?
4. Is it true that you kept the White House fully apprised of these illegal activities?
5. Is it true that you spent an inordinate portion of your office budget on jello shooters?
6. Is it true that you encouraged a culture of corruption at your division of the IRS?
7. Is it true that on visits to the White House you encountered President Obama and Reggie Love playing “Hide the Income”?
What’s really odd about this whole IRS thing is the ‘spontaneous’ admission and apology given by Lerner prior to the release of the IG’s report. That statement by her moved the whole narrative from what could have just been that we are still looking into ‘alleged’ targeting of Conservative groups, to a done deal-yeah, we targeted the Tea Party.
Why did she do this? It didnt shape the narrative to the WH or IRS benefit in advance of the report’s release-at least as far as I can tell. It obviously didnt benefit her directly. All it did was legitimize the report’s findings.
Paddy — And yet, the 5th is not a ‘get out of testifying free’ card. (Whether or not there is any other investigation) — unless your answers would in fact incriminate yourself, you cannot invoke the 5th.
She said she is innocent of wrong-doing, so I believe the 5th is not a choice for her.
In Ohio v. Reiner, the U.S. Supreme Court held that “a witness may have a reasonable fear of prosecution and yet be innocent of any wrongdoing. The [Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination] serves to protect the innocent who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances.”
But are there next steps? Could the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform find that by making an opening statement asserting innocence, she effectively waived her Fifth Amendment protection and if she continues to assert it, the Committee could find her in contempt and have her jailed? Or is that well beyond their immediate powers?
I know that the Committee voted and found Holder in contempt over F&F, but I don’t recall if that vote had any weight, or if they just moved it the full House.
In a criminal case, a defendant is deemed to have waived their 5th Amendment rights once they begin testifying, because a defendant cannot be compelled to testify. A witness, who can be compelled to testify, can assert his/her 5th Amendment rights on a question-by-question basis.
I still think that Issa should have started at bottom and worked his way up. Subpoena the low-level employees from Cincinnati, whose names he could get from any number of sources, and let them lawyer up first or provide testimony. Them people would likely be easier to crack.
More insurance fun. Got this in an email from a broker today:
“We submitted the risk to CSE, Fireman’s Fund, Safeco, Chubb and State Farm, due to brush they all declined. If Farmers is offering renewal we strongly recommend to stay with them!”
“Looks like you should stay put. If Chubb won’t take you than it is a tuff placement.”
Sven -- I seem to recall that, back when I first bought my house, my mortgage holder offered insurance that I would be forced to pay for if I couldn’t/didn’t find it on my own. Have you check with them for a price hack? At this point, it may be cheaper than what you’re looking at.
Any word on USAA? I don’t know how that works because my dad listed my sister and I with them (as military dependents, eligible for membership) years ago — if there’s a matter of needing a sponsor then I would be happy to do that for you.
Happy Hump Day, Gerbil Nation!
Man, this week is taking forever!
I hope RabBiT and Mac are doing alright -- and Little Mouse’s family, as well.
Seconded re RabBeet, Mac and Elena’s family
Humpy Hap Day, GN!
Being the mean-spirited old bastid I am, I was glad to see that Issa is going to make Lois Lerner show-up today despite her declaration to invoke the Fifth. (And hope that the questions will be such as to maximize the embarrassment to both Ms. Lerner and the IRS. Because that’s just how I roll.)
Also pleased to see protesters across the country. (Despite my inability to find info about the ATL protest, I was going to go to the local IRS building at noon. Good thing I didn’t, as the protest here was in front of the State House.)
This was my fave sign from all the online coverage I saw:
Rather surprisingly and stupidly, Issa let her walk. I would have left her sitting up there, let questions be lobbed at her, and force her to invoke the Fifth each and every time. Why treat her with any courtesy, especially after she made an opening statement asserting her innocence-which Trey Gowdy at least noted.
Sven -- Yes, I wondered about that. How can she first assert her utter innocence of wrong doing, then proceed to invoke the 5th? Those things would seem to be incompatible. Even if she wanted to avoid tarring others with knowledge that she had, the 5th does not cover that.
I wish that Issa’d made her respond to questions, too. I don’t really get why the Congress is afraid to look tough or even partisan. They’re there to do the nation’s business and they’re supposed to be both tough and partisan.
Once the DOJ announced that they were launching a criminal investigation, any lawyer worth the money would advise their client to invoke the 5th when testifying to Congress (unless granted immunity). I think Holder was quick on the announcement of an investigation to forestall any further useful testimony.
Response below…
1. Ms. Lerner -- is it true that you were aware of the targeting of conservative groups but lied to Congress to hide those activities?
2. Is it true that you directed the targeting of conservative groups?
3. Is it true that you issued that directive under direction from the White House?
4. Is it true that you kept the White House fully apprised of these illegal activities?
5. Is it true that you spent an inordinate portion of your office budget on jello shooters?
6. Is it true that you encouraged a culture of corruption at your division of the IRS?
7. Is it true that on visits to the White House you encountered President Obama and Reggie Love playing “Hide the Income”?
What’s really odd about this whole IRS thing is the ‘spontaneous’ admission and apology given by Lerner prior to the release of the IG’s report. That statement by her moved the whole narrative from what could have just been that we are still looking into ‘alleged’ targeting of Conservative groups, to a done deal-yeah, we targeted the Tea Party.
Why did she do this? It didnt shape the narrative to the WH or IRS benefit in advance of the report’s release-at least as far as I can tell. It obviously didnt benefit her directly. All it did was legitimize the report’s findings.
Paddy — And yet, the 5th is not a ‘get out of testifying free’ card. (Whether or not there is any other investigation) — unless your answers would in fact incriminate yourself, you cannot invoke the 5th.
She said she is innocent of wrong-doing, so I believe the 5th is not a choice for her.
In Ohio v. Reiner, the U.S. Supreme Court held that “a witness may have a reasonable fear of prosecution and yet be innocent of any wrongdoing. The [Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination] serves to protect the innocent who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances.”
But are there next steps? Could the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform find that by making an opening statement asserting innocence, she effectively waived her Fifth Amendment protection and if she continues to assert it, the Committee could find her in contempt and have her jailed? Or is that well beyond their immediate powers?
I know that the Committee voted and found Holder in contempt over F&F, but I don’t recall if that vote had any weight, or if they just moved it the full House.
In a criminal case, a defendant is deemed to have waived their 5th Amendment rights once they begin testifying, because a defendant cannot be compelled to testify. A witness, who can be compelled to testify, can assert his/her 5th Amendment rights on a question-by-question basis.
Standing Hard and Strong: Wiener for Mayor.
Weiner’s premature declaration -- releases candidacy video one day early.
Anthony Weiner: Hey, I got nothing to hide.
Being a Wiener is hard.
Anthony Wiener: He’s no schmuck.
I still think that Issa should have started at bottom and worked his way up. Subpoena the low-level employees from Cincinnati, whose names he could get from any number of sources, and let them lawyer up first or provide testimony. Them people would likely be easier to crack.
Yes. The people on the bottom have only a job to lose — the higher-ups are the ones that have secrets/agendas/political patronage to hide.
More insurance fun. Got this in an email from a broker today:
“We submitted the risk to CSE, Fireman’s Fund, Safeco, Chubb and State Farm, due to brush they all declined. If Farmers is offering renewal we strongly recommend to stay with them!”
“Looks like you should stay put. If Chubb won’t take you than it is a tuff placement.”
Sven -- I seem to recall that, back when I first bought my house, my mortgage holder offered insurance that I would be forced to pay for if I couldn’t/didn’t find it on my own. Have you check with them for a price hack? At this point, it may be cheaper than what you’re looking at.
Any word on USAA? I don’t know how that works because my dad listed my sister and I with them (as military dependents, eligible for membership) years ago — if there’s a matter of needing a sponsor then I would be happy to do that for you.
And if they need an actual military person to sponsor you, I’m pretty sure my dad would do that for you if I asked him to.
Thanks, Brenda; I did try them, but it was a no go due to brush.
Well, hell. I wish there was something we could do for y’all.
Do you have any spare ZOG money that you could throw my way? I do have many Joooooish friends, well, at least two anyhow…..